I don't like it either when the creators listen to the fans too much. What they see is the most vocal part of fandom, and it doesn't represent my experience of how fandom on the whole felt about Bela. I think the character had a lot of potential, just like Jo did, and I'm not too fond of the trend to kill everyone off. I like to invest in characters, and I would like to see a lot of them recurring.

But I also like Kripke's comment that he's never wavered from the overall story and mytharc he plans to tell. That's good to know. :)

The problem with Supernatural having a lot of long-standing secondary characters is that this show built itself on being about Sam and Dean. So adding secondary characters, whether you love them or hate them, is kind of tricky. Plus, where would any new characters fit in? They already have their hunter resource(s) in Bobby and Ellen, and what else would realistically fit in? They kind of boxed themselves into a corner where that is concerned.

As for Bella - I don't like her, and I used to. I actually like Ruby more now. But let's face it, to be able to tell the story Kripke wants to tell, there isn't much room for secondary characters. That's kind of what happened to Jo - fans didn't like her, yes, but in the end, there wasn't enough room for her anyway.

While I`m quite satisfied with this development I don`t think the deciding factor was fan reaction. All the signs pointed to the writing staff waiting to see how the reception would be after 3.15 with the proposed turnaround where finally, finally she would be made to look the fool and not the brothers again - which with 4 episodes straight of the reverse has been my biggest peeve with the writing of her.

This sudden announcement before reaction to 3.15 has any chance to filter in makes me believe it had budgetary reasons above all else. Kripke mentioned in his last interview their budget would be cut even more for next Season. Now obviously we got the early renewal but it`s quite probably he only now received the network`s note how much the budget would be next Season. And to keep her on he`d have to decide around now and sign her on for one more Season. Hence the cut needs to be done now.

The fact that it was so easily done shows me that her purpose to the plot is/was still superflous.

As for secondary characters that carry their own storylines, Ill admit for me that ship has sailed. I muster up some rudimentary interest for the weekly PiP and I`ve grown to love Bobby but long-term anything not directly linked to the brothers doesn`t hold my interest. If they put in a side character and gave them their own threads, I`d simply fast-forward. Ensemble shows are fine but I`m not watching this one as one.

I'm very happy that she's leaving and it has nothing to do with the fact that she may or may not become a love interest. I have a problem with the character per se. She's not even fun to hate how it's supposed to be.

1. We're supposed to feel something for a character, some connection. There was none of this with Bela because we have 2 boys whose mother was killed, whose father wasn't exactly the best parent, and who grew up to be morally strongy in their own way. Bela may or may not have a backstory, but I doubt it would tramp the Winchester. That gets me to my pet peeve. Boys = heroes, girl = bitch. Yeah I hated the character from day 1

2. The writers fucked up. Sorry, but they have been acting OOC in every scene she's in. Bela shoots Sam, I expect Dean to kill her first and burn her second, no questions asked. They trusted her over and over when they trust no one.

3. Red sky was the worse episode ever, worse than Wendingo. Omg, my poor boys were so badly written.

This has nothing to do with romantic interest. I'd love to see some Sam/Ruby and Dean/Ellen, but Bela was just a character that ruined the pre-existing ones.

I think that the issue with Bela was that she made the guys look like idiots and really who the hell needs that? I do wish they had show more of Jo and Gordon and Hendrickson. Gordon and Hendrickson where good opposition with out being overbearing. Bela to me is just awful and not because she a female but because she is just selfish and dangerous. I wanted to like her she was kickass and had some spunk but the last few times she was on the show I began to dislike her, she doesn't add to the story at all. Ruby is cool though and she can move the myth arc along.

This has never been an ensemble show, even when Papa Winchester was alive. This has always been a show about two brothers and how what they do affects them and thier relationship.

I personally don't give a rats behind about the background to the few characters who show up semi-regularly. Yeah, it was interesting to see what was behind Bobby's decision to become a hunter, but I could have lived happily ever after never knowing it.

I don't want secondary characters to have thier own screen time, I want to see them interacting with Sam and Dean. I want to see what happens to the secondary characters cause character development for Sam and Dean.

Bela's problem was writing. She was written badly, she made the boys look stupid, and the things she did weren't believable. Is there honestly anyone watching who believed that she was able to steal the hand out of Dean's inside breast pocket without him knowing it? That he'd actually let her get that close to him? Who really thinks the boys would be A)dumb enough to leave the colt in a 'safe' in a flea-bag motel, and B)even Dumber Enough to let Bela SEE the colt????

Ditto for Jo-- I've never even heard of Alona Tal before this, and have no clue what caliber actress she is. But she looked like a teenager, she ACTED like a teenager, and Dean was ... 27, 28? in Season 2? No way would he even look twice at a kid like her. She wasn't believable.

In a show about two brothers, where you have 40 minutes to tell an entire story, something has to give. What would you rather lose? Some background development of a character who may or may not return? Or an important moment or bit of character development between the two brothers?

I actually liked Bela more than Ruby if for no other reason than she's prettier and a better actress. Objectively I recognized that the guys turned stupid when she was around.

but honestly I'd have been a lot happier if they axed Ruby the actress sucks at acting and I can't stand anything she's in.

At this point I'm dissapointed they got rid of Ellen and Jo. The show wants love interests not interesting developed secondary characters.

I don't particularly like Bela, and won't be sad to see her go, but I do agree that the lack of secondary characters is a problem.

Ok 1st off I get what you are say, but Kripke so dose not listen to the fan wroth crap.

Case in point....Ellen!
99% of the people I have came acrossed love Ellen and wanted to see her back in fact see Ellen get more screen time...but that didnt happened nor it is going to happen.

Same thing with the Andy, Gordon, and Hendrickson. I think most of the fan like they story. Little old Kripke killed them off all by is little self. After all we was the one who said that he was tired of the whole special kid story.

I would have love to see more of the special kids and there story. Because to me they fit the whole story of Supernatural.

Now Bela...um where did she fit in....The show I sign up for to watch was a show about the Supernatural. Not someone who goes around stealing things, or making people look stupid.
Maybe if the wrote Bela different or right out of the gate she had a real reason for being around then people might have liked her.

I really blame the whole thing on Dawn at CW more then Kripke thou. Cause it was her dumb idea to bring Bela to life. Shoot way before the season started people where alread question why? So it like any one can act surprised about it.

Now if they want to bring a "girl" on then they need to go back to season one and take a good hard look on how the wrote Meg. And who they got to bring Meg to life. Nicki Aycox did and awesome job on playing Meg. And she worked! There was plenty of heat between her and the boys and it was done in a tasteful way. There was not of this "Anger Sex" crap.

Ok Im stoping cause I could carry on forever about this subject.

I get where you're coming from in general, with the idea that secondary characters are needed. I agree with it.

I love Ruby and I hope she stays and gets further development. I like Bobby and Ellen and want at least one of them to stick around. So I'm not against secondary characters.

I just cannot stand Bela, specifically. The writing for her has been terrible. The characters act OOC in almost every scene they're in with her. She's like a tiny puzzle piece that won't fit into the one large spot you have left to fill. Supposedly, she was only meant to be a one shot character -and if that's the case, it shows. She seems forced into almost every episode post Black Rock.

However, I don't like what happened to Jo. I think she had real potential as a character. I liked that she was strong and impulsive, but inexperienced and a bit naive. She seemed like a real person, and the character growth for her could have been awesome. Love interest aside (although, I personally could have seen Dean with her down the road), I thought she was a good character in her own right.

Edited at 2008-04-23 09:28 pm (UTC)

I think the show has had some really good secondary characters but my only real interest in them is how they have interacted with Sam and Dean. I adored both Ava and Andy but they fitted in with the story and moved it along and were great for the time they were there, but would I have wanted them along for longer? I think the answer has to be no, their story has been told. It's the same with Ruby, she's moving the plot along and she is causing conflict with our boys and that's interesting to watch. But Bella is a different story for me. I don't feel she enhances the story at all but worse I find her totally irritating. She makes me want to smack that smirk from her face and I can't stand that accent it sounds so fake, and I am English by the way. A 'baddie' like Gordon I can love to hate is great, but a character who is like nails on a blackboard er no thanks. So if Kripke has listened to people moaning and is getting rid of her then I say thanks for listening.

I'm going to agree on some points and disagree with the rest. I happen to like Jo very much and I was definitely interested in seeing her grow as a character. She never had a chance because everyone likes to have a single Dean, I suppose. I liked Ash. I really really loved Hendrickson and would have really liked to have seen more from him, possibly with him either becoming a hunter himself or becoming hunter-friendly, know what I mean?

But Bela. I can see where she had potential but. It's not because she was a problem for the brothers. It's not even that she may have been a love interest for either one of the Winchesters. It's because they boosted her up with no history whatsoever at the Winchesters' expense. Yes, we can see that Gordon was a force to be reckoned with because he was just out of his mind. Hendrickson was a problem because he didn't know anything about the supernatural at all. I don't think fandom has a problem with a character who will challenge Sam and Dean. What they DO have a problem with is having a new untried character show up and basically make them look like complete idiotic amateurs. It's just something I can't see as realistically happening and I think a lot of people had the same problem.

These guys have been raised to hunt and to fight and to survive and to be one step ahead of whatever they're up against. If these guys can take on demons, witches, shapeshifters and vampires, they should be more than prepared to take on a mercenary headhunter who's only in it for the money. Now maybe if they were on equal footing, that would be something. If it was more like they won a few, then she won a few, so on and so forth, that would be alright. It's just too much of a stretch to believe that someone's going to show up and consistently one up John Winchester's boys. Know what I mean?

I'm not particularly sorry to see her go. Not like I was sad to see Jo eventually disappear or Hendrickson killed off. I'd rather have them back than to have a continuation of Bela. And if she was just an extra body Kripke threw in to appease the CW powers that be, then it's not like it would affect the overall story if she left. Kripke can giveth and then taketh away. I'll still watch.

I fully agree with you on this point. This was why I was upset about Jo, Ash and Ellen. I was SO INTERESTED in them and how they got into this whole thing, but fans didn't like Jo because she WAS becoming a love interest so BOOM her character doesn't get written too well and she's suddenly gone. Ellen? Fans think she'll be too much of a mother figure for them and BOOM she's not written as much and is nearly gone now. The only secondary character that really made it is Bobby (YAY!!!). And see how that worked out? His backstory has been shown and we're even MORE interested in him. This could very much happen with ANY character (Jo, Ellen, Ash, Andy, Bella), but fans react SO BADLY to female characters that we don't get the chance to get to KNOW them.

So now that I've repeated everything you've said, I'll be going =P

I'll miss Bela. I didn't take to her as well as I did to Ruby but I thought the "female foil" archetype could work very well with Sam and Dean without said female becoming part of the "ensemble" or a love interest. I thought Lauren Cohan did a better-than-average job acting-wise, as well.

Like you, I'm glad Kripke is up on what the fans "want" however... negative reaction is almost ALWAYS louder than the positive. The vocal minority is a dangerous and powerful group. It's why the NRA is so influential in this country. It's why Days Of Our Lives would consistently win all of the fan choice awards even when they were 10th out 10 daytime dramas in terms of ratings.

I trust that Kripke has a strong hold on the base storyline for SPN - the Sam and Dean/family drama/mythology - but I really feel like he needs to trust his own instincts better when it comes to developing the secondary stories.

I understand that contractual contraints would make it difficult to get both Hendrickson and Gordon back with any regularity but the finality and quickness with which their turns were dealt was jarring and unsatisfying for me. Give me ONE MORE episode with Gordon as a vampire... or ONE MORE episode with Hendrickson as a hunter and THEN write them off. I woulda been a lot happier.

In short - and in conclusion - I agree.

:)

- Karen

Edited at 2008-04-23 10:09 pm (UTC)

You don't know me-- I found this post completely by accident whilst tooling around somebody's friendslist, and I hope that responding to it won't freak you out or anything, but I just have to say thank you for posting this. Especially this part: "I don't agree with fans who dislike her only because they fear she could become a love interest for Sam or Dean. Or because she's caused Sam & Dean trouble. She's an antagonist - her entire reason for being is to cause them trouble.". Because that's exactly what I've been saying since Day One: she's an antagonist, she's supposed to be like that. In fact, she's pretty much like other antagonists such as The Trickster, in that respect. Except nobody complains about The Trickster getting one over on the boys, because he's a demi-god and it's expected from him.

You're absolutely right, by the way: they really have some problems with thier secondary characters. They have so many interesting character concepts which have gone nowhere: like Bela, or Andy, or Ash, or Ellen, or Gordon, or Hendrickson, or Jo. I mean, I know we love Sam and Dean, but we really do need those secondary characters, and it would be easier if they introduced some new ones and then stuck at them, rather than introducing new ones every season because the old ones "didn't work out".

So, um, yeah. Thank you. After an ocean of "YES, THE BITCH IS GONE I HOPE DEAN KILLS HER!" posts, this was especially welcome. Thanks! Sorry for barging in!

I'm glad to hear that there'll be no more Bela. I don't know what exactly it is, but I don't really like her. But I do agree about secondary characters. God, I would have loved to see Henriksen as a hunter! *sniff* I don't know why they had to kill him off. More Ash and Andy would have been nice too. Or Ellen. She's a woman, there's not enough of those on the show and everyone loves her, right? I want her back. Oh, but when (I probably should say if) she's back I demand an update on Jo. Or to actually see her. Because I liked Jo, I never saw her as a threat or anything. Speaking of threats: Meg. Man, I would love to see her back. Problem is just that she couldn't be played by Nicki Aycox again :o/.
Anyways, I wonder if it would be possible for a show like Supernatural to focus more on characters that aren't Winchesters. OMG, a Mary & John flashback episode would be made of so much win! I mean, the show could probably do that, but the question is if we fans could accept that.
Because you know about Bela I'm assuming you know a little bit about the rest of S3:
It's about 3x13, so if you don't know, don't read.

The next episode looks like it will focus more on Ed & Harry than Sam & Dean. It worries me a bit, what if it's too different from 'my' Supernatural? Or maybe I'm just a bit annoyed that this seems to be a funny episode after two episodes that were quite heavy. I mean, yeah, they do that, but dammit, that seems like a sudden change of mood to me. Anyways, I'll see how that ep will work for me with its possibly less than usual Sam and Dean.

I don't dislike the actress. I really know little about her other than this role.

I think Bela was wasted potential. For whatever reason (budgetary, writing, performance, whatever), Bela could have been a great foil for the boys and really, her character could have gone either way as a villian or a reluctant ally. Instead, she was reduced to a simple plot device used sporadically, and became the dreaded of all plot devices - the Mary Sue.

The writers have shown they CAN add secondary characters to great effect. Just, for whatever reason, on this one, the ball got dropped.

I don't think Kripke is listening too closely to the fans and I am glad Bela is leaving. She was a badly done character, all the way around.

At this point, I would like some extra characters in the show (eep, I never thought I would say that) but I think three things have hampered Kripke: 1) the storyline he wanted to tell: he wanted to kill off the special kids, so awesome people like Andy and Ava, who had recurring potential, were killed; 2) actors' other gigs: JDM is off being successful and the actor who played Hendricksen was offered another role; and 3) there was nowhere else for the story to go: Sarah had to be left behind and Gordon had to be killed. There were no more conversations to have with him, imo. The arc was complete with both characters (and others who were left behind/killed).

Kripke's shoe-horning actresses in hasn't been successful in S2 or S3. I would like to see him get a couple of new characters in for an ep or two and see naturally where things go. I feel like there is recurring potential, but it has been squandered: sassy psychic; Ava and Andy (which Kripke gets a pass for); a lady love in the middle of the country (ewww. But I am almost thinking this might be better than nothing.); a helper on the side (like a cop, a nurse, a witch, a professor).

*shrugs*


Edited at 2008-04-23 11:11 pm (UTC)

I don't disagree with most of your comment, and I could really like the idea and character of Bela, she could have worked well. The plan sounded almost exactly like Alec when he was introduced to Dark Angel. The parallels - a totally mercenary semi-antagonist (ie only antagonist because the hero is messing up the new guy's plans like Alec in Two), working at odds with the lead character due to their different motivations, crossing paths accidentally but for good reason, the hero ends up saving the new character (Proof of Purchase=Red Sky, etc).

So we got to that similar point, and it could have worked. Maybe it was due to lack of screen time, and too many distractions in the start of S3.

However, as an English person, the actress has a really irritating, appalling, mid-Atlantic accent, not British but not American either, like she's trying too hard. Not quite as totally awful as Juliet Landau, but almost as irritating.

Maybe the writing wasn't good enough to make her a decent character (it certainly wasn't good enough to make her words work as a natural English speaker, so they shouldn't have tried, just make her a posh American instead!), and there was practically no characterisation written in at all, Whereas Jensen can inject some underlying enotions and motivations to very few words with his facial expressions and just very good non-verbal acting, I don't think Bela did. She has poor facial expression and is just too bland and blank. She should have done more with scenes that revealed her motivations and character - eg the one where she pays them at the end of Red Sky could have been so much more personally revealing with a bit more care. Also, the shooting Sam scene didn't help - it was far too light on any sort of acting depth at all - again some sort of emotion (even glee!) would have helped. She didn't even come over as a good bad-guy.
So, for me, the failure was entirely down to the execution of Bela, not the idea. Not a good enough actress, not good enough writing or planning of the character.

Not all fans are writers, or even active in the fandom except for watching the shows and talking about it the next morning. There are those that don't know what character development is, wouldn't know it if it bit 'em in the buttocks. But they know which characters they like and which ones they don't. Apparently, a bunch of people just do not like Bella - with good reason.

She is a bad character. I'm not saying she's a 'bad character' to mean she's the one that's there to make the boys look bad; I'm saying she's badly conceived, badly explained, and badly incorporated: she came in with no backstory - none, but that she's a thief - and was totally unwilling to share even a little about herself that didn't have to do with missing out on her payoff.

This is compeletly unlike the other secondary and even tertiary characters in the show. The Sarge in Croatoan we knew was a marine and connected with Dean in short minutes. Andy we connected with because we saw his van and how much of a slacker he was, and just how harmless he really was. Also, when he just asked Dean for the Impala, yeah, that totally won me over. I don't know about y'all...

The Henrickson thing is STILL a touchy subject, because, yeah, he could have been an AWESOME secondary character (much like Bobby, I think, only harder on the inside *shiver*) BUT Charles Malik Whitfield had another show to do. (soemthing tells me but for that little development, Kripke DAMN SURE would have kept him in the story line.)

So yeah, Bella's not like any of them. At all. And that's not a good thing. I can't help comparing Bella to Gwen on Angel.

Gwen was a thief and had stolen a very important artifact that Angel needed when he was trying to find Cordelia. There was potential there for her to be just the nasty badass that we hated, but her character was set up in a scene that took about five maybe six minutes. We saw that she was a freak - could electrocute people with just a touch - so she became a loner. Should Bella have been a freak? No! I'm not saying copy Whedon, but we should have known more about her by now.

A simple picture in her apartment, some memento she wore around her neck that was always visible, something to tell us that there was more to her than just a thieving, moneygrubbing Brit. Give or hint at a reason for her chosen vocation. It would only have taken a few minutes, and we might have been a little more receptive to her. But to just dump her in as an antagonist with no reason for the antagonism? It didn't work, and now it's too late to fix it.

Hmm. sorry I hijacked your journal, Just had a lot to say about that, i guess. LOL.

I do agree with you in principle...I too miss so many of the secondary characters they had: Andy, Ash, Hendrickson and Gordon most notably. In some cases, yes Kripke was right and they had to go. In other cases the actors were just no longer available: JDM, and the guys who played Gordon and Hendrickson - so that brought about their premature end. Gordon especially was to have a lot more to do this season.

But really, other than John, Gordon and Hendrickson, I don't honestly know that there a further to go with the other characters. Once Kripke decided that the 'special' kids were giving him fits, Andy was gone for sure. And really, I don't know that keeping his character would have continued to be useful, especially if like Sam, he no longer had his powers. What could he contribute to the story? Ash could continue of course, but would that make Sam's researching stuff redundant?

As for the 'new girls', when I first read their characters, I truly thought I would love the Bella character: it was different, and something that could work, and it made sense if she dropped in from time to time. The Ruby character I had no use for, up until it was revealed she was a demon: now the 'kick ass' stuff makes sense (thought the actress CANNOT carry it off at all!!) I still like the Ruby character and just try not to grimace too much when she's trying to be tough (I work in law enforcement - I could throw that chicky out of the picture pretty darn quick!)

Bella on the other hand, was poorly written and presented. She was meant to be a ‘one off’ and it was pretty obvious pretty early on. She quickly became a 'caricature' rather than a real antagonist to be reckoned with: like Gordon or Hendrickson. Yeah the guys outsmarted both of them, but it took a lot of work, took smarts and physical effort. It seemed believable. Bella on the other hand, in order to 'work' has to have the two main characters change: they have to be 'dumbed down', they have to totally become AU practically for her to appear smart. Dean especially suffers every time she is on screen (and I'm not even a Dean girl!!) We won't even talk about that revolting 'dream' Sam had about her: can anyone say "here's a semi naked female for the 18 - 34 male demographic' for the network? Because that is the only thing that scene did, other than totally alienate Sam fans.

What happened is that the writers fell in love with the character and were/are using her to put THEIR feelings into the show: she's basically a Mary-Sue: smart, beautiful, sophisticated, fancy name and always comes out best against the heroes, oh, and they like her (now anyway). GAG! From the beginning the writer's have totally failed this character, and not too surprisingly, the fans have reacted negatively. I'd disagree that the fans didn't like her first and then the writer's quit trying: Kripke and Sera both have sung her praises, so they're not letting her character drop (in their minds at least).

It's really too bad, because they could have had a good character that the boys were at odds with, who plagued them without being another hunter, or girlfriend, or whatever, but they totally dropped the ball on her. Some of the stuff that they had Dean doing or totally not doing or catching on to, goes directly against his character: he doesn't know about the 'hand' thing? He's stupid enough to let her get within 10 feet of him, when he knows she's a thief? And the true 'wrong' for me?: she hurt Sam, and he's like'...'ah just a shoulder wound'... sorry, totally against Dean's character which has been spelt out to us NUMEROUS times: "look after Sam". It's Dean's reason for being practically, but yet when Bela does it, it really doesn't matter. She could have killed Sam (considering he still had the bad luck thing going on), and a bullet wound no matter where it hits, is dangerous. So, no, I think the fans are just giving Kripke and the writers a very honest review of their work: and in this case: it sucks! Like a Hoover even. :)

That said, I'm not averse at all to female characters, and I'm not aware of the new character(s) that you allude to, so not sure what is up there. But, and this is a big but: she has to work, she has to be believable in this universe. She also has to be able to hold the screen on her own, if they want characters to give Jared and Jensen a break. Jeffrey Dean could do it: heck, he practically blew the poor boys away! Nicki as Meg could do it, Bobby can do it for a short bit, Gordon DID do it before he expired, and Hendrickson could do it. Bela and Ruby cannot: they are not charismatic enough, and they aren’t written well enough to do that. Bela has had plenty of time to get her character down, but it's just not working. Time to jetisson the floatsam and get on with the show.

In response further to the amount of time allotted to the secondary characters, time itself is a very major issue in this show: it's shorter than most to start and any extra stuff about other characters needs to be quick, concise and well executed. I loved Ash and Andy from the first couple of minutes, same with Ellen and Bobby. I 'loved to hate' Gordon, the Jesus guy, and Hendrickson and Meg in about the same amount of time; they all worked. They did the job they were supposed to do. Bela did not; partly the actresses fault (I cannot count how many people just loathe that accent) and mostly the writers. Same with Jo, except the actress was good, but given the wrong directions about her character. After listening to Alona's comments at the last con, I'd place nearly ALL the blame on the writers failing that character totally.

If there was no one on the show to cause Sam & Dean trouble, every episode would just be them driving around and pranking each other.

What? Dean's deal, the coming war, the feds after them, Gordon and the usual hunting they do weren't enough? They needed more shit to worry about?

i think, i didn't red all the comments, but i think most of people here hates Bella because she made the boys look stupid. well, that actually kinda fun to watch for me. and like you said, she brings another part of the boys that we rarely see.

and she's an interesting character also. She's evil human, but, unlike Gordon and Hendrickson, doesn't have any reason to give trouble to the boys, in particular. she would do evil things to just anybody. she just evil and in it for herself.

And although love is a too strong word to show what i feel to the character, it's still a loss i think. i hope maybe if she shows up in not too many times like in s3, people will like her more.

But let's just see how Kripke do it. I still believe in him ;)

I really enjoy Bela. I often wonder if I'm the only one.